On a First Name Basis
A show dedicated to telling the human side of the stories surrounding the research at Boise State University.
On a First Name Basis
Owen McDougal: Can Bike Trails and Ski Slopes Promote Innovation?
Discover the art of balancing passions and profession with Professor Owen McDougall from Boise State's Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry. Owen shares his unique perspective on how outdoor activities like cycling and skiing have not only shaped his personal life but also invigorated his academic endeavors. His routine—a 17-mile mountain bike ride to work coupled with family ski trips—creates a space for mental clarity and innovative problem-solving. Owen’s story is an inspiring testament to how integrating personal passions into daily life can foster creativity and balance.
Journey into Idaho’s flourishing food and dairy processing industry, where cutting-edge technology meets innovation. Despite facing workforce challenges, the Food and Dairy Innovation Center stands out as a beacon of progress, mitigating risks and boosting competitiveness with collaborations from industry giants like Anheuser-Busch. This episode spotlights the Build Dairy Program, where student-led research aligns with industry needs, driving forward advancements in dairy and nutritional science. Learn how this synergy between academia and industry not only enhances educational outcomes but also propels Idaho’s economic landscape.
Celebrate collaboration and mentorship with stories like Tyson Hardy's, who transitioned from a Boise State student to a valued industry professional. We also explore the evolution of the Food and Dairy Innovation Center, emphasizing the importance of real-world experience and hands-on industry collaboration in education. By personalizing student projects and nurturing their passions, institutions like Boise State are crucial in preparing the next generation for success in dynamic sectors like dairy and nutritional science.
Welcome to On a First Name Basis, a podcast where we dive into the stories behind Boise State scholars. I'm Dr Chris Saunders, but please just call me Chris. I'm a faculty member here at Boise State and I'm excited to share with you some of the amazing stories of my colleagues, their journeys, the challenges they've overcome and the connections they're building right here in our communities. Supported by the Boise State Division of Research and Economic Development, this podcast is all about getting to know the people and their work. Join me as we explore the human side of the innovative blue turf thinking happening at Boise State. Let's get to know each other more on a first name basis. Now, it's a pretty safe assumption that I can make that many of you listening.
Chris:Like particular outdoor activities, one of the benefits of living in this area is that we've got a lot of options when we go outside. So whether you bike, you ski, you camp, you fish maybe all of those things I want you to think about what it is that goes on your brain? Maybe you're riding your bike. What is it you're thinking about? Now, our guest today rides his bike, probably more than most of us do on a day-to-day basis, and what he's thinking about when he's riding that bike is also probably not what most of us are thinking about. On this episode of the podcast, our guest is Professor Owen McDougall from the Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry. Owen is also the Director of the Food and Dairy Innovation Center on campus, and we'll be hearing a lot more of that. Welcome to the show, owen.
Owen:Hey, thanks so much for having me, Chris,
Chris:so Owen how often are you on your bike?
Owen:I would say daily. Yeah, it's part of the balance. So there are some things that are uncompromising. So I work seven days a week, Um, but uh, with that, uh, there's gotta be a time set aside every day. Um, that provides a, um, uh, mental clarity mountain bike trials, or when I get my most creative writing accomplished in my head and then it's far more productive to put that, you know, into a script once I return to a computer.
Chris:I was going to ask about that.
Chris:So how many miles do you put in on your bike each day, roughly-
Owen:you know, if I'm mountain bike trails on the way into work, it's a 14 mile stretch in and you know three mile commute home from there. So about 17 miles on the mountain bike trails on the way into work. It's a 14 mile stretch in and you know three mile commute home from there. So about 17 miles on the mountain bike. Um, today it'd be a 30 mile loop on the gravel bike and you know, hit that at the end of the day it's going to be a cooler day, so it depends on the day.
Chris:And and and, like you said. So that that's where you're doing that creative process. Are you thinking about your research? That that whole time Is? That is that, where kind of the mental gears meet the physical?
Owen:gears of the bike. Yeah, shockingly so. I mean the the mental clarity is is really amazing, you know, and often whether it's manuscripts, whether it's grant proposals or whether it's just solving problems and challenges in the workplace. So, as you mentioned, I've been a department chair for the past seven years and many of the most complicated problems that we face within the environment and the academic institution, you know, creativity and solutions come at the oddest times, you know. So cycling is one area where I get that mental clarity.
Chris:So for you it's not optional right, it's a must have, must have that time on the bike to bring balance. Oh absolutely yeah, and then. So you mentioned skiing as well, so I figure regular trips up to Bogus. Where else do you like to ski?
Owen:You know I had my daughters in the daughters in the bogus basin uh ski education foundation um program, the race association, for 10 years each Um. So during the time that they were there uh we'd be on the mountain um probably three or four days a week Um. So bogus was a was a big part of uh their upbringing Um. The race circuit, the intermountain series, put us uh out to Jackson hole, uh down to Utah snow basin um uh snowbird um do we uh our avid skiers of Alta Um so we get around uh sun Valley as a another part of the circuit and most uh recently Targhee is as part of the mountain collective.
Chris:So so now, was that love of skiing. Did you grow up skiing? So you mentioned you know getting your daughters into that, but did you? Was that part of your upbringing? I found that skiing kind of culture runs in families. So did you grow up?
Chris:skiing.
Owen:Um you, you know, I grew up in upstate New York, so you know it's a lot of rolling Hills, uh ski areas about 500 vertical. The uh winters are flaky. Um, so you'd be, you know, three foot of snow, then um 40 degrees and pouring rain, and then minus 20 degrees for two weeks straight. Um, so it was very inconsistent. Um, graduate school at the university of Utah, the Wasatch mountains, um I I was like a kid in a candy store. So, um, my stay in graduate school is extended an extra year. Um, all that had a 782 inch season and I it cost me a year grad school.
Chris:So so you stayed at graduate school longer because of good skiing one year.
Owen:I would say I was called to the mountain on a regular basis. It got to a pretty interesting place when one of my organic faculty, who was a very intimidating individual, came up to me in the hallway one day and said, hey, I need you to do me a favor. And I'm like, oh, what's this going to be? He said my brother-in-law's in from Edmonton. I need someone to take him skiing. Um, and it was a pretty incredible experience to to bring him up and you know, uh, it was deemed as a favor on the first day, but when I had to pick them up the next morning to go back again because the snow just kept falling, it was like, hey, don't you have work to do in the lab?
Chris:So it was an interesting conflict and yeah, you hear lots of different reasons from graduate students as to why they might take another year. They're not quite ready to ride, or I've got this one project, but I don't think I have anyone. I don't think anyone has told me. Yeah, I just I, the skiing was really really good that year. For for me, graduate school, it was that extra year because the economy wasn't doing so great, the housing market was was crazy, and most of the graduate students were kind of like we're going to stick around, We've got gainful employment here, we can work on those more projects. I was in Arkansas and not a lot of skiing in Northwest Arkansas. Again, the idea of what's a mountain versus a hill very different in that part of the country than over here in terms of what's considered a mountain versus a hill.
Owen:Yeah, I would say in graduate school. In graduate school, um, I got very involved in um back country touring Um and then, uh, you know, my passion for skiing led to um uh going through the training program at park city as a ski patroller, um, so I patrolled for two seasons there and that was part of the move to Ashland, oregon, was a transfer of my ski patrol uh credentials to Mount Ashland. So I was a 10 year total as a member of the national ski patrol. I patrolled the eight years that I was in Ashland Um, it was a very different community than the academic environment and something that I clung to very tightly were regular people, a lot of firefighters, a lot of EMTs you know, former military that are involved in the ski patrol and folks that are very discipline oriented, and it was an environment I cherished uh quite a bit.
Chris:So kind of. So that was your balance to your your academic life. Or some people will say the real world, it's all the real world, but kind of that balance between your academic colleagues and then basically your ski community.
Owen:Um, yeah, yeah, no, very much. So it's funny. You know, in graduate school I had a colleague, Joe Manna, who would bring up regularly. You know, in the real world you're not going to be able to do this, and I just have not agreed with that and have continued to do what I do.
Chris:Well, and I think that that's sometimes a misconception of that people might have about faculty at a research university, right and not to. There's certainly some people that fit that stereotype, that are in the lab doing the research or in their office all all the time, but I think sometimes forget that that there there is life outside of our, our life outside of campus, and there are these things and you've mentioned a number of times that that balance the things that we do that aren't, that aren't our job, and how important that is, but also how they interface with, like you said, that creative thought process. And when you're thinking of these ideas, um, you're, you're outdoing those things that that bring you balance and the things that you that you love, that you love to do.
Owen:Yeah, I would say it's critically important and core essential for productivity. Um, without that gap in time to uh foster creative thought, um, productivity doesn't come. So, um, I, it's interesting, you know, I spent a lot of time watching people and behaviors and, um, I spend a lot of time watching people and behaviors and often those that are nose to the grindstone focused constantly end up being less productive because they're not providing time for creative thought. It's like doing a yoga class and skipping Shavasana. It's a core, essential part of the practice to have that rest period for meditation and together thought.
Chris:Without it, much is lost. So that's an interesting perspective and segue into what I know about you as a research and a scholar is that you since I have known you, there are always new project, always, always more, always more, always more. There's a new grant to write. There's a new project that you're working on Now you're the director of the Food and Dairy Innovation Center. So is that part of the balance, too, of taking more on and pushing the envelope? For some that might feel like, oh, you're piling too much on. Is that part of the other side of the equation, that that, that new challenge piece?
Owen:I would say it's absolutely there. Yeah, the work that we do. So. So I've always I've always been a, you know focused on tools and skills, so skill development. So in chemistry we use a lot of instrumentation and the thing that has inspired me most is how can we use these tools? How can we develop skills? How can we apply instrumentation in ways that haven't been done before? When we do that, it generates a lot of interest from industry. Could we try this?
Owen:And in order to develop the Food and Dairy Innovation Center, I had to flip the script and realize that it's not about me, it's not about my interests, it's not about my academic career, right?
Owen:So I had to get through to a full professor, to jump through all the hoops and hurdles of the academic institution, to be able to focus on what are other people's challenges, problems, issues, and can we address industry challenge and develop student skill set and talent at the same time? And it turns out that students are intensely interested in problems of relevance. So when we get into things like food and dairy, everybody eats, so you have an inherently natural juxtaposition of interest in food we eat and skill development and careers and jobs in the state of Idaho or in the region, or across the world, for that matter. So it was a natural fit, and by inviting industry in to say, hey, what are the challenges that you're facing? And then saying you know what? How about I generate the funds to pursue this work? So it costs you nothing, but we're going to support students in this process and by supporting students and addressing their problems and challenges. Money was very easy to find.
Chris:So in many ways you're talking about taking kind of easy to find. So in many ways you're talking about taking kind of some we'll say traditional academic views and that we're preparing our students. You mentioned skill building. We oftentimes talk about critical thinking, problem solving, skills which sometimes can feel in a classroom setting kind of removed from, as you said, the relevant work that they might be doing. But you're also talking about solving problems from an industrial standpoint. Right Of there's dollars and cents here. It's not knowledge for the sake of knowledge, it's knowledge to answer a question or to solve a problem or to improve a process. And so your pitch to industry right, if you're saying it won't cost you anything, that's a pretty attractive, right, attractive sales pitch. And so you're trying to, if I'm getting this correctly right, you're marrying the academic pursuits of students, but also, in that context of providing to industry and to students that experience that can get them into industry in the future. Is that correct? Like doing all of it all at the same time, rather than keeping it separate, blending the two together.
Owen:Oh, absolutely yeah, I would say within industry, especially in Idaho. So Idaho is fifth in the country for food production, third in the country for dairy processing massive industry. There's no people here, right? I mean we're under 2 million people and we're this powerhouse of agricultural products. So the shortage of people means that workforce is a real challenge. So it's referred to as a silver tsunami. So we have this massive number of retirees on the horizon where there's going to be a lot of jobs that need to be filled.
Owen:So industry has an active interest in getting that next generation of individual to work for their companies. And the industry is becoming more modernized. So higher levels of mechanics, engineering, chemistry, physics, so STEM education becomes at the forefront of workforce development and what they need in the industry. So within that, idaho is one of the most modern dairy processing states in the country. Most of these facilities are 20 years old. So the emergence and integration of new technology as it comes out artificial intelligence, machine learning, big data, types of activities, pulse, electric field application, twin screw, hot melt extruders that type of technology adoption needs to be vetted and that vetting is very expensive. So if the university with students, we can obtain the technology, we can vet the technology, we can provide the protocols for industry, then their barrier for adoption becomes very low and therefore we can facilitate modernization in food process for a competitive edge for Idaho within the domestic and global marketplace.
Chris:So you're talking about kind of ideas that were so, let's say, you're a dairy processor or a farmer who knows that there are some new technologies out there, but it's risky, right to change over to an unfamiliar technology, and so what you're suggesting is, well, the innovation center can take on some of that risk and can vet that and try it out and then have actual results for industry, for farmers, where they can go yeah, we can adopt this, we know, we now have evidence that it works. So instead of them experimenting, you get to experiment and then kind of report out. Is that? Am I understanding that correctly? Oh, absolutely.
Owen:Yeah, I would say it goes a step further. You know, a lot of these processors are at full capacity. I'll give you a. For instance we work with Anheuser-Busch. Anheuser-busch processes 250,000 pounds of barley per hour, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Their facility has never shut down.
Chris:That's here in state.
Owen:That's Idaho Falls. Yeah.
Owen:Largest malting facility in the world. We also have the largest Greek yogurt processing plant in the world and Twin Falls, idaho. I just visited Chobani yesterday. So within these facilities they don't shut down for anything. So adoption of new technology is peripheral. They are full throttle. All systems go all the time. So there's not the time, energy, attention to vet new technology, let alone be able to incorporate it. The magnitude of the scale of the incorporation is absolutely massive.
Chris:So that explains kind of you know this purpose of the Food and Dairy Innovation Center and what its role is now. But how do you get to that point? So, first off, when did the center start? It's still relatively new. When did it officially start?
Owen:Officially 2020.
Chris:Okay, and so were you sitting on the bike and you had this idea, was there? Cause? I know that that prior to this, your your own research in your lab was not kind of food and dairy centric. You were looking at, at, at some other things. So was there a? Was there a project or a person or an industry partner that came along that got you thinking like, hey, this, this food science, this dairy science thing in Idaho, that this is, this is a really good match and there's a real opportunity here. What was the, what was the Genesis of that?
Owen:Yeah, I would say uh, one aspect was we achieved critical mass of partners and projects. Um, there were two companies that were most um involved I and I would say near 50, 50 split. So, um, one side's food, uh. So food physics group, uh, food physics open and applications lab in Boise, 15 minutes from uh Boise state. Uh, jim Gratzik was a principal at Food Physics at the time and Jim came and visited with me to describe pulse electric field technology Pretty hooked on the concept right away. So this is a way of I would say, if you've had a french fry it's been treated with pulse electric field the extension of that technology. The opportunities are massive. So we started writing grants with Jim in partnership to pursue potato chip for pulse electric field application of potato chips to reduce acrylamide levels. We looked into the Idaho wine industry. So we're working with three different wineries Cinder, talia and Split Rail. Um. And then Anheuser-Busch is also a food physics project. Um.
Owen:And then we got into dairy and dairy was brought about by uh Dairy West Western Dairy Center and the Build Dairy Program. Build is for building university industry linkages through learning and discovery. Within that program this is out of the dairy industry to provide checkoff dollars. So for every 100 pounds of milk processed, 15 cents goes to Dairy West for promotion of dairy goes to Dairy West for promotion of dairy. Idaho process is on the order of 16.8 billion pounds of milk per year, so there's several million dollars available. So Dairy West, through Eric Bastion and Don McMahon Don McMahon's at Utah State University they created the Build Dairy program. They funneled a couple million dollars into the Western Dairy Center to support dairy research. They invest in students, right. So this is something you know. For faculty it's like here's money to support student research projects. Those projects are industry priorities. So this group of Eric Bastian and Don McMahon got 12 different dairy companies and these are multinational companies in general, so multi-billion dollar multinational companies, all of which have holdings within the state of Idaho, and they brought them into a room with faculty from about 10 regional universities and these are across Utah, idaho, oregon, washington, and then there's some peripheral like North Carolina State University with Marianne Drake's work.
Owen:Within this group, industry and faculty put forth their project ideas that would benefit the dairy industry broadly. So it wasn't proprietary, it wasn't. You know, this is ours, we own it. It was. Here are projects where we have problems. Spray drying for protein powders is inefficient. We want to look at ways to improve that efficiency. If you look at dairy, historically it's always been about nutrition. What hasn't been investigated to nearly the degree it needs to be is bioactivity. So we don't really understand bioactive aspects of dairy ingredients. How do these help health and wellbeing?
Chris:Okay, so that's what I was going to ask in terms of what do you mean by bioactivity? So so this is moving beyond. How much proteins in it, how much sugars in it, those kind of those macro nutrients, right? What? What about all the other stuff and what? What are those impacts on on health? And I would, I would assume, then, so that those don't get lost in the processing, so that those can be measured. The effect is understood, is that is that correct?
Owen:Yeah, you measured. The effect is understood. Is that correct? Yeah, you know the industry no longer refers to things as waste. It's byproducts, and byproducts of processing all have value. So there is still massive amount of material within dairy processing that goes to animal feed. That goes to fertilizers. That is amazingly vitamin rich, mineral rich that is amazingly vitamin-rich. Mineral-rich contains small amounts of carbohydrates and proteins. That has potential for what's called upcycling or valorization. So what we're looking into with the industry are ways that we can take these byproducts and generate probiotics, prebiotics, different types of electrolyte, sport beverages, nutrition products, infant formulations, elder care products.
Chris:So all from dairy all from dairy stuff that's already being processed, and instead of putting it back in the dirt, you're putting, putting it to use, exactly Right. So you're getting now, too, from an industry, right You're? You're still processing the same amount of milk, but now you're making more, more money per right, per gallon of milk that you're processing, cause now that gallon goes a lot farther.
Owen:Yeah, it's interesting. Milk consumption is dramatically declining. Cheese consumption is dramatically increasing. For every one pound of cheese that's produced, it utilizes 10 pounds of milk to make it. So the dynamic is such that value wise dairy farmers are struggling because the price of milk is low, but the dairy industry is thriving because the commodity prices are very high. So a lot of money can be made in cheese, and one of the quotes from AgriPure was that cheese is what pays the bills. But when you start producing things like whey protein powders, that's where the profits are.
Chris:Interesting.
Owen:Yeah, so that something that used to be spread across fields is now what we're paying top dollar for in the health food aisle. That's exactly right.
Chris:Or that's mixed with other products, right? If you read the ingredient labels for a lot of different things, right, they might have protein powder as a as a component in there, so you're not buying it that component by itself, but it's mixed in with other food products as well.
Owen:Yeah, and you know to. To speak to your your prior question on proteins right. So proteins is all the buzz right now. So casein 80% of a dairy protein is casein. Casein goes into cheeses and and cottage cheese and and products of that nature. The whey protein is into your sport nutrition and what they found is the protein that makes up whey. So there's about 20 different proteins in whey that makes up whey. So there's about 20 different proteins in whey.
Owen:Those are very quick recovery so they help. If you have an aggressive workout. The recovery of your muscle is aided by whey protein and the reason for it is a lot of branched long chain amino acids. So we're starting to understand the biological value of the protein when it's broken down in the human body and it turns out that dairy proteins are very digestible. Something like casein digests more slowly and it's for longer term. So that old adage of you know have a warm cup of milk before you go to bed, it'll help you sleep. Casein is associated with calming. It's associated with long-term recovery. So a glass of milk before bedtime there's something to be said for the old adage and how that plays in. This is kind of like right.
Chris:we've known things work. We have worked for a long time. Now we're just starting to understand why it is the scientific basis behind that Like, oh, this makes sense that this works. It doesn't just work because you think it's going to work, but back to that bioactivity of understanding all of the different components in what you consume and what they do.
Owen:We're just scratching the surface. So let me go a step further. Enter hot melt twin screw extrusion. Now we can start modifying the protein structure in ways that change the functional attributes. So if you think of your protein shake, you take a scoop of powder, you throw it in with milk or water and you put it in your shaker and it clumps and it floats on the surface. It doesn't dissolve. Well, that's a functional attribute of the powder mix itself. If we can partially denature, if we can open up those proteins a little bit, it will enhance their solubility such that we don't have to add additives. So one of the things we can do is use pressure, heat and shear in order to modify properties of proteins to get the desired solubilization, emulsification. So when you shake up your protein shake and you drink it throughout your workout, it doesn't separate out, it stays as a uniform, homogeneous, cohesive solution. Those are the types of properties that we can manipulate physically, not chemically, in order to make clean, label products that people are more interested in buying.
Chris:So it doesn't change the flavor. It doesn't change the nutritional value. You're not wrecking the nutritional value just to get it to dissolve in whatever it is. You're trying to mix it in.
Owen:You know it's an interesting thing you bring up. So one of the challenges to plant-based proteins are what's called the organoleptic properties. They stink, texture-wise they're challenged. So the same technology that we're adopting within the dairy industry, we're also looking at for plant-based proteins. Within the dairy industry we're also looking at for plant-based proteins so to improve the odor, to improve the texture of the ingredients that are utilized. So there's a lot of work to be done there. It can happen. But I think one of the things that we're also discovering is the dairy industry has gone very detail-oriented on sustainability and climate influence. Plant-based ingredients have not. So it's very difficult to get a side-by-side comparison of hey, how's that gallon of oat milk or almond milk compared to a gallon of cow's milk? What is the environmental impact on that? They're actually not that far different. And the sustainability side the dairy industry is very conscientious of achieving carbon neutral 2050, you know climate resilience and sustainability goals. So it's an interesting dynamic of perception at this stage within the population.
Chris:Right. I mean in that perception. It is that perception too of what is healthy and what is not. I know that when I talk with my students a lot and they ask about those kind of things. Like you said, milk consumption is on a downward trend, but I bet you, if you look at almond milk or oat milk or the alternatives those are probably, I would imagine, be have been on an upswing kind of, as people look for what they perceive as healthier options. And now what you're talking about is well, it's fine to say one thing is healthy versus something else, but but actually, looking, like you said, a comparison of what, what are the differences, what are the similarities to, to plant-based protein versus versus dairy-based protein?
Owen:I think we're we're reinventing what we know right. So, um you know, back in the what? Uh, probably 1980s, um, fat was bad, oh yeah, my growing up I there were so many fat-free things in my household that tasted terrible, or they were just really really sweet or really salty.
Chris:I I was joking with some of the other day I grew up thinking butter didn't taste very good because I was so used to margarine my mom used used Crisco in everything and everything that she used Like it was fat. Fat is bad and as long as it's fat free or low fat, it must be good. And now, as an adult, I actively have to search out full, full fat products because for me they taste better and they usually satisfy my appetite more.
Owen:Well, I would say that's exactly right. So not only, not only uh is the taste better, uh say it is induced, but we're learning a lot, especially within um, some of the dairy lipids, um, so the fat within dairy, um going into infant formulation and the contribution of phospholipids towards brain development. So as we explore more infant formula and different types of Lipids from or fat from dairy and the benefit towards early childhood development, the more recent trend is wow, can we apply this to dementia, to elder care products? Can we up the dairy fat within the elder care products in order to improve cognition and elderly's ability to retain memory and thought? And the studies are very promising.
Chris:Interesting. Is that relatively new? Because that's one of those things I guess that has not been on my radar right Of a lot of the things we look for in infant nutrition also then on kind of the later stages of life, same kind of thing in terms of brain health.
Owen:Circle of life yeah, what comes around goes around. Brain health. Circle of life yeah, what comes around goes around. So this is part of the. We got a National Science Foundation Convergence Accelerator Grant. So this is across multiple institutions.
Owen:Every one of our deliverables is associated with a different industry partner and this is accelerating concept to product ideas, from milk to consumer products, and we focused on infant formula, sport nutrition products and elder care products. So as we go to different conferences, you know, taking notes on where the emerging trends it's really coming into those three categories. How can we improve infant formulation? How can we access sport nutrition such that the electrolyte balance within our recovery beverages within? You know, gatorade was the thing of the past, but do we really need that much sugar? Often it's the sodium, the calcium, the magnesium that really helps with endurance athletics, which has become very popular more recently. And then also, like sport nutrition, bars, which are made through hot melt twin screw extrusion, right. So any of your bars, your cereals, your kibble, your nugget, your gummies come through an extruder. And then the elder care products, understanding the nutrition profile and the core essential ingredients that will sustain life as we get older.
Chris:So the funding, these are coming from grants that you've written so nationally. You mentioned NSF, National Science Foundation, but this is the industry portion. What is the industry portion funding? You mentioned they fund students. So what would that look like?
Owen:I would say the Build Dairy program itself is a cash match. So the checkoff dollars that come through the Western Dairy Center provide matching funds for industry, provide matching funds for industry. So the way we do this is going to an annual Build Dairy Conference. We just got back from Washington State University. I had six graduate students presenting their work there. When the students present, every student that's funded presents their work and all of the industry are there to listen to what the students are presenting. And there's an entire industry day where students interview with the different companies. So imagine about 12 companies, 56 students and a full day of roundtable interviews between the students and the companies. So it is all about professional development, it's all about internship opportunities, it's all about future employment. And then it gets into the project side of things and what the industry is interested in sponsoring in terms of work. So when my students present at the conference, industry representatives come up and they say, wow, that's really interesting, have you thought about doing this? And the answer is always well, we would love to do that if you'd like to sponsor a project. So often what I do is make that partnership. So, of the 10 graduate students and the five full-time employees. All of them are funded off of different grants. So I interview students, I ask them what are their interests? What are they interested in? Have you thought about this? What do you think of that? And we find a good fit. And then we start working on a grant together and then we work on that grant together. And then we start working on a grant together and then we work on that grant together, provide the submission, and we've been very fortunate to have most of those funded. So students are working across different agencies.
Owen:From Build Dairy. Every one of the Build Dairy grants has an industry sponsor and those industry sponsors are different. So whether it's Glambia, whether it's AgriPure, whether it's the National Dairy Council, whether it's Daisy Brand, these are companies that are putting money in to support that student research, being matched by the Western Dairy Center Within the scope of the non-dairy grants. This is Idaho State Department of Agriculture, the Specialty Crop Block Grant Program. This is IGEM Commerce. Igem stands for Idaho Global Entrepreneurial Mission, or the IGEM HERC. Herc is the Higher Education Research Council also have industry partners, whether it's Southern Fabrication Works, Food Physics, Anheuser-Busch or the wineries. We have folks that are interested in this work. It is based on their ideas, based on their priorities, based on things that are important to their industry, that if we provide solutions that will provide economic stimulus to their business, which is good for Idaho which then means they need to hire more employees, which is good for our student opportunities.
Chris:And with that I would imagine that many of these kind of sponsorships have turned into employment after they've graduated from Boise State. You've had students go on to work in industry and in some cases, maybe the industry partner that funded their research. Is that the case?
Owen:Yeah, I'd say Tyson Hardy is our poster child for success in this avenue. Tyson was our first Build Dairy student. He did an internship at the AgriPure facility. This is Jerome Cheese, and Jerome was purchased by AgriPure some years back. Tyson worked in the facility. He was very well liked. He came back. He worked at Boise State for at least a year to gain confidence in instrumentation and equipment as a stockroom lab service coordinator and then he was recruited highly by AgriPure for a full-time job in Minnesota.
Owen:It is likely that at some point Tyson will return to Idaho. He's an Idaho boy, he wants to be in Idaho and he will get here. Um, but I I would say as a bachelor's um uh of science with a chemistry degree, he started at about the same salary as our master's students do at Micron um to work in the dairy industry and the protein research center at AgriPure. So he was highly sought after um, you know, hardworking um, very bright and um you know he just had the fit that they were looking for Um and he has done amazing things since he's been at AgriPure and we look forward to see him Every time he's coming back home.
Chris:That's a great story. I have good memories of Tyson as a student as well and I'm glad that he's been so successful with this. Have you had other students kind of interested now in food science or dairy science? Again, that pull for a lot of people that have made Idaho their home for a long time? Sometimes we forget some of those large industries that are here and those opportunities.
Chris:I myself grew up in the Panhandle and my grandfather was a dairy farmer when I was younger. When I was younger, I have fond memories of the, the, the milking barn, but I didn't really, you know, I at that point I wasn't too interested in the process other than the milk that. The milk that they had at the fridge, at the grant, at the farmhouse, tasted and looked a whole lot different than the stuff that you, that you, that you bought in the store. I learned at a very early age what homogenized means in terms of that that's not what the milk looks like. And so, growing up in small town Idaho and being interested in science, I didn't really realize, or I didn't really think about the agricultural science side of things, that there was chemistry and physics and biology that were happening in these industries that were very familiar to me growing up and might be familiar to other people as well, but not don't always think about all the processes that go into it and the science that goes into it.
Owen:I think what's been very impactful. Universities like Boise State are usually not involved in dairy research. Boise State are usually not involved in dairy research, so Boise State's seat at the table among the other universities and just about every one of the other universities is a land-grant institution. So part of their core mission is supporting agriculture. Boise State hits it from a different angle. I mean we are chemistry, biochemistry at our core and most of the students that I have that are involved in dairy projects are part of the biomolecular science PhD program, so they're well-versed in chemistry, biology, so they're well-versed in chemistry, biology and physics.
Owen:That's a different lens to look at problems and bioactivity and proteins and fats and carbohydrates. On the food light. On the science, it's about manipulating ingredients for better cheese, but that has gases and things that cause defects, understanding why that happens. You can locate the bacteria with microbiology, but you can also look at the chemistry side and the organic acids that are being produced and you can do qualitative and quantitative analysis. We can understand things at a much deeper level and we can manipulate those macronutrients, the proteins, the lipids, the carbohydrates, in ways and using instrumentation and equipment that people haven't thought of before and it's that integration that's been very powerful for what we do here at Boise State.
Chris:So do you think that is the next evolution of it? It is food science at a different level right.
Owen:So we introduced this concept of hey, let's use artificial intelligence and machine learning to interpret infrared spectra for quantitative and qualitative analysis of dairy proteins real time throughout a dairy processing facility.
Chris:So this is using instrumentation to take measurements, but also then the AI to evaluate said measurements and make decisions based on what they're seeing in real time.
Owen:That's exactly right.
Chris:So kind of the quality of the milk as it is going through the production facility.
Owen:So interesting you say that. So their interest is consistent quality product.
Owen:Now the composition of the milk changes depending on the time of year the cows are milked
Chris:Right which cow what it's eating Right now I'm thinking Napoleon Dynamite, right, Did the cow get into the onion patch and how do you know?
Owen:That's a whole different project and topic oh yeah yeah.
Owen:So what I would say along the lines of the milk itself is seasonal variation. So in the winter cows produce more fat and the milk um for the calves, um, in the summer there's less fat, there's higher carbohydrate, higher protein. So the composition of the ingredients of the milk changes. So if you're processing, um say, between one and 11 million um pounds of milk a day, which a lot of these facilities are doing, that composition is critically important to getting a consistent quality product out in the end. So there are companies that basically deconstruct milk, they separate the fat, they separate the protein, carbohydrate components and then they reformulate to get to exactly the composition they need to provide consistent quality product. So it does get rather sophisticated, involved and expensive. If we can give them real-time monitoring capability, not just on total protein content but which proteins are present in which amounts, that level of detail and granularity, real time, becomes very valuable to them and that's something that we're exploring and looking into. And Tim Anderson is our lead. He's a computer science faculty member here at Boise State University.
Chris:Very cool.
Chris:So again, it sounds like not so much new technology but new application, using things that we in academia have been using for a long time to answer fundamental science questions. But now it's to solve, as you say, problems that are relevant and of interest to the industry that may not have known the capabilities of those things. Right, you say you use the same machine for years. It gets the results that you need to push the button. You have a have a known result, but now it's well, where can what's the? What's the next? What's the next evolution?
Owen:I go one step further. I mean a lot of the work I do is technology adoption. So the European Union is very forward thinking. They're very focused on sustainability. They're very strict on regulation. The United States is pretty lax still. So we are losing competitive advantage in certain areas, are losing competitive advantage in certain areas. So I would say a half a dozen of the projects that we have going involving like pulse, electric field technology adoption, are things we know will work because they're being done.
Chris:They're already being done elsewhere. They're just not necessarily familiar to our agriculture system, but that is changing clearly.
Owen:The cost of adoption is higher than what they're willing to pay. So our role is to lower the barrier for adoption, to facilitate that, such that the return on investment can be as short as possible and that the technology can be implemented in ways for the United States to be a competitive player in a global food market. I'll give you an example Pea protein. Pea protein is an ingredient that's used in a wide variety of different products. The pea protein produced in the United States has texture issues. It has odor problems. The pea protein produced out of Canada they've overcome it. They found ways to do the processing of pea protein such that it doesn't provide a grainy, granular taste when made into a beverage, such that it doesn't have a residual odor that's off-putting. So there are ways to do processing using technology to get superior product quality that is palatable to consumers. And the United States has to step up in that modernization phase, in that modernization phase.
Chris:And so do you think then this what sounds like broad support of the Food and Dairy Innovation Center is kind of response to that of we need to up our game, and this is the way to do it.
Owen:There's no question, there's recognition that the United States produces a lot of product. The quality of that product could generate significantly more revenue, right? So Idaho is the potato state. What do we produce? Russet, Burbank potatoes, right? So when you provide French fries, hash browns, tater tots, the margins are pretty low for the potato farmer. So there's an interest in the organic farmers to provide better tasting potatoes, fresh pack potatoes that have higher nutrient value and nutrient profiles. So we're starting to understand. You know those red skin potatoes, the purple potatoes, the nutrient profiles are far superior. So as people start becoming more conscientious about the food they eat and the nutrition profiles, they're starting to get into things like hey, how about vegetable chips? You know, can I get my vitamins and minerals that chip, so that I'm getting more of whatever the root vegetable is and less of the added oil as part of that process. So it's a win-win in the adoption of technology.
Chris:You mentioned, you know, industry coming to you, so so let's say so, and you've mentioned some really large industry partners. Would this be something that would support also smaller, local food producers, Like, are there opportunities there? I think I go down to the Saturday farmer's market every every week with with my family and I always think about kind of these smaller farmers, smaller producers and for them, where those margins are really important, right, and even new food products that they put out, they still have to go through some sort of processing. And is the center a place for those questions and those projects too? The smaller, super hyperlocal producers?
Owen:Let me say yes and no. So the Food and Area Innovation Center predominantly is a food analytical lab. Beyond that, what you're describing was a proposal that was not advanced, so I'll continue to swing for the fences and what we're looking for. We submitted a white paper for what's called the National Science Foundation Mid-Scale Research Infrastructure One Grant that would provide up to $20 million. We pitched the idea of an institute for sustainable food solutions. That institute would be a processing facility. So we identified space at the university that we could basically renovate and new space where we could build onto an existing building, and this institute would provide the ability for food processing, dairy processing, application of advanced manufacturing technology for new product innovation, new ingredients, as well as a sensory lab where people could come in and they could bring their products for people to evaluate and review on whether they're going to be palatable, acceptable and provide ratings. So that comprehensive center reviewed well but did not advance and we'll go back again to try to get that funded.
Owen:So I would say the Food and Dairy Innovation Center is a step in the pathway towards achieving what you're describing is broader impact across an ever-expanding landscape. We also put forth a grand challenge grant within Boise State University to combat obesity. So the title of the proposal is Combating Obesity for a Healthy Idaho and we will submit that proposal to the United States Department of Agriculture in August and that would provide funding for, like global gardens, so for the refugee community that grows vegetables and things for sale at the farmer's market. They were a partner in that program. So we started tying in with University of Idaho extension offices in order to do workforce development training in order to impact smaller and smaller members of the community across every county there's more than 40 counties in Idaho, within the state. So we put a framework in place and a lot of the momentum that led to the Food and Dairy Innovation Center was done just this way. We submit proposals, they get declined, we revamp, repackage and send to another organization until it gets funded. So it's a matter of time It'll happen.
Chris:So would you say people in the local regional area that might be listening to this or know someone that might be interested in this, would you have them reach out to the center on the website via email? How do you recruit more partners? You said at the beginning of this this was formed because you reach critical mass of that demand on a large scale and it sounds like still trying to reach critical mass for some of the smaller or mid-scale. So are you looking for people to reach out and say, hey, we make this food or we have this idea, we just don't have the technology available. That instrumentation is not cheap for a small local farmer who doesn't need to make a whole lot but still would. Would. Would would benefit from that. Um, should they reach out to the center?
Owen:Yeah, I think so. I mean, we we have a FDI uh center, um is the uh, the URL um uh for the food near innovation center and and that um gets monitored. So, um, yeah, reaching out as a, as a good way to identify whether we can provide value um uh and network solutions.
Chris:The, the opportunity here for students within kind of their education as well, is to me really critical, especially when you talk about when people will ask you know, what is the value of that college degree? And that answer, you know, has changed over the years and I think that we again we are at a moment in time where that value, that question is really, is really at the at the forefront. So so I'm thinking about, you know, an undergraduate student, you know, doing your research in your lab. They're not just doing, you know research so that they can present a paper, or they're not just presenting this paper to, maybe you know, their friends in the class or the department. Right, they're presenting this to industry partners, industry leaders in the state. They're presenting these things that are really high level. How do you see this as kind of how this integrates in with that more what we would call traditional educational experience? Does this just take it to that next level? Does that provide? Is the value added, the the way to go?
Owen:Um, for me, it's the only way to go. Um, I, I don't. Uh, I think there's a um, uh level of frustration that I've had with, uh, certain limitations, um, within the academic institution that you know you just bypass. You pave your own path.
Owen:So, by creating a Food and Dairy Innovation Center, it provides opportunities for students for direct engagement with industry. So if you want industry at the table, you need to provide a service they're willing to pay for, and if they're going to put money in it, they're going to have an intense interest in not just the project but the people. So the key to this is getting the students in front of the industry partners, and here's an opportunity for the student to step up, to take this seriously, to do a good job and to leave an impression on the industry partner that hey, this is someone that we're going to want to employ as soon as they're done with their position. In several cases I have students that are actively working with industry now where industry has offered to pay for them, and so far we haven't needed to take them up on that because the funding has been readily available.
Chris:So it's not exaggerating to say that your experience with this has changed or is changing. How you teach, how you mentor, how you prepare students that come into your lab for those next steps.
Owen:You know, there's no question. It's being conscientious and responsive to what industry is asking for.
Chris:So is that hard though. So when you say that right, I always think of a large industry partner coming in and saying well, you're not going to do your own research, you're going to do exactly what we do. But every time you've mentioned it, it does seem more of a partnership of here are some ideas, but also you've had some ideas and they're like oh, that's interesting, right, is it? Is it again? Certainly whoever's paying the bills gets, gets to tell you you know what your, what your project's working on. But but has has that been a challenge, or is it? Or is it much, much more teamwork than it, than it might might sound?
Owen:I'll go back to the original statement on. Every one of the graduate students is working on their own grant with an industry partner.
Chris:Okay.
Owen:In other words, that grant is where the money comes from. So industry only benefits. So they don't have control over it because it's not their money, right? I mean, they may have, in several cases they may co-sponsor the work, but it's the granting agency.
Owen:So our response-
Chris:so the original proposal is still what the work is being done on, but what you're finding is where that overlaps with industry. So two birds, one stone kind of thing of it's not a or it's an, and
Owen:Exactly right.
Owen:Yeah. So I would say for a decade I stumbled over the direct work with industry industry contract Very difficult to do. Then it's intellectual property. Then it's looking at six months in legal trying to get agreements in place that sometimes never happen. That doesn't work. What does work is when you identify what the problem is that industry wants to solve and then you find the money through a third-party organization like the state of Idaho, in order to benefit the business through economic stimulus, to benefit the student. But the money is coming from a source where, as a university professor, I'm accountable to the grant agency and to the reporting to that agency. Industry is my partner, they benefit, but our accountability comes back to the state agency that provides the funding.
Chris:So do you kind of view that as the best of both worlds?
Owen:I view it as a way to navigate the university bureaucracy and it is not just university, I mean, it's the state of Idaho, right, and every state has this. You have strict guidelines legally, by which you can follow and navigate, and those are not in line with industry's guidelines. So, in order to bridge the gap, you go through a funding agency that negotiates with the university on terms and conditions. Industry agrees to that, so it's a way to streamline the process in a way that benefits students.
Chris:Yeah, I was going to say. Is that also includes the students, right? You mentioned VIP, right these projects. For those that aren't familiar with them, a student gets credit for them as a class, but they learn different skills over the course of many semesters. It's integrated into their curriculum.
Owen:So the reason for the initiation of the vertically integrated project course in food systems was because industry at the Build Dairy conferences said hey, we need employees with project management experience. We need our employees to be able to come in and run a team of individuals. So every one of the projects we have set up in the vertically integrated project course is overseen by a different graduate student. So we have five different projects that have two to three undergraduates on them. Each. Each project is a graduate student thesis project. So the graduate student is the project manager for their team on their project.
Owen:So the undergrads provide the support crew to go into the lab to have a direct mentor from the graduate student and to work on a project that is well-defined, because there's a grant proposal that provides aims that they are accountable for. The graduate student has to navigate the when are you going to be in the lab? What experiments are you going to do? What safety considerations do you have in play? What results are we trying to achieve and obtain? And to look at it from the broader picture, but to manage their personnel to achieve the goals for their project.
Chris:And these are all skills that are transferable to any industry right, any job that you're going to have you're, you're likely to to use those skills right. So so, those that don't go on to food science, they're still going to, still going to take those project management type skills, those organizational skills, with them as, again, value added right, the things that don't come out of textbooks.
Owen:Exactly Right. Yeah, I would say my, my uh. Second build dairy student, vanessa Campfield. The uh analytical uh experience she gained working on uh Swiss cheese, uh blowout um got her a job at micron technologies Um. So because she had such extensive instrumentation experience it transferred into her position at Micron. The Build Dairy program does professional development, the interview process with companies. Through those interviews you refine your skills. That refinement led to exceptional interview ability to pass through multiple stages of interviews and out compete other candidates. So even though she was doing a project in our master's thesis on cheese, she was competitive and in a micron uh chemistry laboratory um for a very prestigious position.
Chris:So, as we start to wrap things up, I've got two, two more, two more questions, and so so the first one is with all this right, you at lots of examples, clearly the last three years you've been been really busy. What's what's been? What's been the biggest challenge? I talk to my students a lot and students hear this right of resilience and grit, whatever, whatever word that you want to do that. And anyone who has been involved in any level of research knows that research doesn't work all the time, right, and you've got lots and lots of projects. You've got industry partners, right. They don't want a project to just be well, the results aren't, the results aren't good, right, and academia, sometimes you can get away with that of well, the result is this this doesn't work. I've done three years and I can tell you that this doesn't work. So what, what has been, what's been the biggest challenge, the biggest thing that you've really had to go, you know, five, 10 extra miles on the bike to find, to find that balance.
Chris:What's, what's been that thing with, with this project?
Owen:Uh, this project I would say department chair has been the thing that's driven me over the edge.
Chris:Um you know we're a rowdy bunch in chemistry.
Owen:It's not so much that they um, you know, chemistry has 41 full-time employees. Um, within my lab during the academic year I have over 30 individuals. So it's almost a 50-50 split in terms of number of individuals providing oversight for them. So navigating that complexity has been challenging. And the university landscape keeps changing. The budgeting process changes, the way in which we're going to do classes and the employee turnover rates consume an appreciable amount of time. So for me it's very difficult to navigate the two simultaneously.
Owen:One it provides, you know, extreme gratification. So when I'm working with different companies you know, thursday was Anheuser-Busch, yesterday was Chobani it's just amazing, the eye-opening experience. And every time I meet with a company there's another project that comes from it, or five. Right, I mean, it's just being able to visualize the opportunities that are available there. You can only pursue so many at one time. So trying to regulate which of those opportunities to pursue. So right now I have a list of those opportunities that are available that I'm not able to pursue at the moment, but when the appropriate call for proposals comes up, I've got like a Rolodex of okay, this is the ideal project for that solicitation, and then to go for it.
Chris:So I think if you are passionate and excited about something, you'll find time. So I guess it kind of preemptively answers then my last question. You kind of naturally float into that when people think of academics, when people think of scholars and people think of of research. Again, sometimes they don't think necessarily of the whole, the whole picture and the how does one keep all of that straight and how does one keep motivated and kind of so so what, what is the thing that you would want people to know? If there was one thing about, about doing research like this, about leading that many people about you know, interfacing with industry, what's, what's the one, the one take home message? What do you want people to know that you don't think they do know?
Owen:You know, the thing that I found is is it's all about the people. So when I, you know, when I sit down with a student and they say, hey, I want to work on this, that that doesn't cut it. It's it's understanding the individual and what motivates and drives them. What is your passion for science? Why are you here? What brought you into the office? Why do you want to do research? What is your passion? If we can find that and put a finger on the pulse of it, then we'll find a project for it, but not to you know. So I think a lot of what we do is well, here are the three projects that I have available.
Owen:That becomes not a conversation piece, it becomes more core values and enthusiasm, motivation, passion. What is your passion? What is it you're going to be passionate about? Because, especially with the PhD students, there's going to be uptimes and downtimes. Right, You're going to hit awfully low lows and in those low lows, you better have something that you're really passionate about that's going to carry you through it, and that's what I need to find with each student. So a lot of these projects are customized to the individual. It's finding the right student, for the opportunity for them to say this is something I really want to do, because then they'll stick with it, they'll be committed, dedicated, and then a lot of the challenges that you run into and lack of interest and not showing up, those go away.
Chris:Wise, wise words. Similar advice when I was, when I was looking at a pH, a PhD programs, and and that you've got to love the project that you're working on because there's going to be times where it just doesn't work for you. And that right that, the, the, the low times, the, why, the? Why am I doing this? Why won't this work? What is going to? What is going to get me back and back into, back into the lab? So I I think amazing that you, that you customize that for for students. I don't think that all students get that type of experience where they get to tailor their project, but I can imagine that your students are are more productive because of that, that they're motivated, they care, they're passionate, they want to do you ever get students that are just kind of like no, I'm not ready to graduate, I don't want my projects not complete, yet that really, that have a hard time stepping away from it, or are they usually ready?
Owen:No, I would say it's been a challenge. You know, the chemistry program came up with this accelerated master's.
Chris:So they just add on that next year. They're like oh, I got one more year, I get a master's degree.
Chris:I can finish this project that I really like.
Owen:I would say I've got a half a dozen of the students in the lab have either, you know, done the biomolecular science PhD program or the accelerated master's and within that sometimes they stay in the same project, sometimes they shift, so you know they'll dramatically. You know, again, there's a portfolio of projects. So the other thing I do is, you know, with the students, at the end of every year we reassess. You know, is this, now that you've seen all the other projects in the lab, what is it that you know as you go to that next step, what do you want to work on? You see what's there and that's been cool to see.
Owen:You know some of the transitions and some of the you know diehards right. So I'll throw Matt Lawrence under the bus. But Matt, you know, is kind of I'm not really sure what I want to do. We got him into a pulse electric field project looking at improving the quality of wine and he's just been all in and, you know, has really thrived in a research environment and and been really captivated by the work and going to the wineries and set up wine tastings and you know it's been really cool to see that growth, that that development and that excitement for laboratory research.
Chris:Well, it's clear that you are passionate about what you do and that you help nurture that passion with your students, and so I would imagine that your lab is a pretty fun place to be in. I just wanted to thank you for your time, um. I just wanted to thank you for your time, um. If people are interested, they can check out uh. The website off of Boise state's main main page is search for uh food and dairy innovation center and you will see pictures and videos of Owen um and a number of his colleagues.
Owen:Thanks so much for having me, Chris.
Chris:Thank you so much for having me, Chris. Thank you. If you'd like to learn more about any of the topics discussed on today's show, please visit boisestateedu slash research. I want to give a special thanks to Albertson's library on the campus of Boise State for the recording space. The theme music for this show was composed and engineered by Boise State graduates Alan Skirvin and Taylor Ross. Thanks again for listening.