On a First Name Basis
A show dedicated to telling the human side of the stories surrounding the research at Boise State University.
On a First Name Basis
Amber Warrington: So Maybe Not All Longhorns Are the Enemy
A Razorback on the table, a Longhorn on the mic, and a conversation that turns from tailgates to the true engine of school change: teachers learning with teachers. We sit down with Associate Professor Amber Warrington to explore how small, intentional communities of practice can transform writing assessment, student belonging, and the daily joy of teaching.
Amber shares how an early love of reading became a life of teaching English, then reveals the moment she noticed a gap—student-centered writing with teacher-centered assessment. That question sparked a collaborative inquiry where educators read research, traded classroom wisdom, and designed a strength-based approach that invites students into the assessment process. The surprising outcome wasn’t just a better tool; it was a better way to learn together. That insight fuels her upcoming book, Disruption Through Design, which shows how educators can turn challenges like AI, post-pandemic shifts, and policy changes into purposeful improvements through design thinking.
We dive into the Boise State Writing Project, part of the National Writing Project network, where teachers lead teachers. From the month-long summer institute to advanced strands on Indigenous Voices and democracy-building instruction, the program builds real capacity for K–12 literacy across Idaho—including rural districts through statewide workshops and campus housing. Amber also highlights the Pathway to Academic Success initiative for multilingual learners and a narrative writing project that helps middle schoolers share personal stories, build voice, and strengthen classroom community. Her throughline is simple and powerful: when educators claim agency, collaborate deeply, and keep one foot in the classroom, students feel it—in feedback that affirms, in lessons that connect, and in a stronger sense of belonging.
Come for the football banter; stay for a practical roadmap to more humane assessment, richer professional development, and classrooms where young people thrive. If this conversation sparks ideas, share it with a colleague, subscribe for future episodes, and leave a review with the biggest disruption you’re ready to design.
Welcome to On a First Name Basis, a podcast where we dive into the stories behind Boise State scholars. I'm Dr. Chris Saunders, but please just call me Chris. I'm a faculty member here at Boise State, and I'm excited to share with you some of the amazing stories of my colleagues, their journeys, the challenges they've overcome, and the connections they're building right here in our communities. Supported by the Boise State Division of Research and Economic Development, this podcast is all about getting to know the people and their work. Join me as we explore the human side of the innovative blue turf thinking happening at Boise State. Let's get to know each other more on a first name basis. On this episode of the podcast, our guest is Associate Professor Amber Warrington from the Department of Writing Studies at Boise State University. She is the director of the English Teaching Program and the director of the Boise State Writing Project. Welcome to the show, Amber.
Amber:Thank you so much for having me.
Chris:So I'm going to start off with a story about myself this time. And that is when I went to graduate school at the University of Arkansas in Fayetteville, I learned that football culture in the South is different than football culture around here. Not to say that one is better than the other, but they are certainly different. And one of the lessons that I learned really early on was that if you were going to be at Arkansas, you had to hate the Texas Longhorns football team. And I learned that that was because they used to be in the same conference. They weren't when I was there, but that that was this deep-seated rivalry. So in preparation for this episode, I learned that Amber is the enemy and that she's a Texas Longhorn, which runs contrary to me being an Arkansas Razorback. So to keep the rivalry alive, while you may not be able to see it, there is an old antique razorback statue that is now sitting in between Amber and I. And Amber, as a longhorn, has to be forced to stare at it. Although I did give you the orange mic, right? Because longhorns are orange and what are the school colors?
Amber:Burnt, orange, and white.
Chris:Burnt, oh see, it's even specific. Burnt, orange, and white. So our story starts in Texas. Tell us about Texas. So, right, you you grew up there, right? You're not just a long horn, you just didn't go there for school, but you have deep roots in Texas, yes.
Amber:That's right. And that razor back was the first thing I noticed when I walked into the recording studio. Yes, I was born and raised in Texas, lived there my whole life until I moved to Idaho and um in San Antonio and in Austin. So I lived in this little 70-mile radius for a long time until I moved across the country and came here. And yeah, very much a Texan. Love the barbecue, love the longhorn football. Um it was, it was a good place to grow up.
Chris:And so now, of course, you mentioned barbecue, which as someone who loves food and barbecue, that is the one thing that people say, do you do you miss living in Arkansas? And there are plenty of things like the humidity and the cicadas when they're when they're noisy. I thought the first time they they emerged, I'm like, why is my air conditioner broken? What is that sound outside? Just large, noisy bugs. But the food, the barbecue, which I also learned in the South, barbecue is not always the same, right? What kind of right is it? That's right. Is it wet barbecue? Is it dry barbecue? What is your sauce vinegar, mustard based? Is it molasses, right? Is it sweet? Not what's what's your favorite style? I have to ask now, what's your favorite style of barbecue?
Amber:Um Yeah, it varies. I've learned it varies across states in the South. Um, so the the Texas style, I mean, the brisket you can get in Texas is really the best. We go back to visit family and things. It's like we plan out our tour of food while we're there.
Chris:So so food being kind of a thing you leave behind, I know that your move to here, there was one aspect of Boise State that that you and your family were a little conc concerned about. And this has to do with with football, right? You're going from football culture to a different football culture. What was that thing that you're really worried about?
Amber:My husband and I were wondering if there's tailgating in Idaho, what was it gonna be like? Would the would people get excited? Would they dress up and the colors? Would they tailgate? Um, we were we were a little concerned that about the football culture here.
Chris:And and what did you find when you got here? How does how does Boise State tailgating compare to Texas tailgate?
Amber:We have to be honest, the Boise State fans bring it. And the tailgating here is incredible. We showed up to our first game. We've had season tickets every season since we've moved here because we are football people. And um, we showed up to the first game and we both said, whoa, this this looks like Texas. This looks like what we're used to. And it's been really fun to learn about a new football culture and be part of that and cheer on a new team.
Chris:Boise State represents itself well, and the fans represent itself well. The South seems to have this idea that they have this lock-on football culture, and it is different, but it and it is big. I I Fayetteville would almost double in population when there were home games. The stadium fit more people than lived in Fayetteville.
Amber:Oh wow.
Chris:Yeah, the the the stadium could fit the the population of Fayetteville and then some, which is which is which is which is which is saying something. Um that's great. So all you Boise State fans keep doing, keep doing what you're doing. That's right. Keep tailgate and like you tailgate and you do you do the blue and orange proud. So you grew up in Texas, and as we will discover throughout this conversation, you are a teacher that teaches teachers and future teachers. And that started in Texas, right? So how early did that start?
Amber:I remember being a tiny kid, maybe first, second grade, and I would come home from school and set up my stuffed animals and my dolls around my room and play school. And uh that continued for years. So it was in my blood, I guess, somehow that I I just was always drawn to becoming a teacher.
Chris:And and early on, did you know? I mean, so you teach teach English, right? Teach English writing. Was that apparent early on too? Or were you just teaching like what were you teaching your stuffed animals?
Amber:I taught, I taught them everything. But I have always been a reader and um I love the the creativity involved in writing and reading and um also just the I think in middle school is where I really I had always I'd been a reader, but in middle school I realized kind of the power that literacy can have for people individually. It was meaningful for me, but also out in the world to share ideas with others. And that that drew me to that specific subject.
Chris:And did you have a teacher that inspired you? Because that's because I'm I'm thinking about my journey, big time reader early on. Like I couldn't devour a series of books fast enough, but that never translated into a love of writing. I even to this day, and I'll tell my students this you don't have to love how to write, but you really do need to know how to write well, pretty much no matter what field, what career you're gonna go into, that that communication piece. And so I think I can write reasonably well, but I've never sat down and enjoyed writing. So was there a teacher that kind of made it that amazing, that amazing creative experience for you?
Amber:Yeah, there was. Um, my middle school English teacher, her name was Mrs. Blunt, and she was actually my teacher for seventh and eighth grade English. And um, that's when the writing became exciting to me. Cause same, I had been a reader, but I hadn't really, I hadn't really thought much about writing. And um she showed us how to how to compose and craft and kind of think of it like an art and think about communicating um with an audience. And yeah, she was also just a really incredible, inspiring person.
Chris:So I think that behind most teachers, you will find that story. For me, it was Mrs. Humble in fifth grade. And I had two teachers in fifth grade that kind of divvied up the subject matter, and Mrs. Humble taught my science courses, the the science piece of that. And she just made it really fun and interesting. Like I felt like we were just playing with things, playing and and I and I think that people ask, how did you become a scientist? Right. I I I would say the seeds were planted then. The seeds were planted early on with Mrs. Humble. So it sounds like Mrs. Blunt planted those, those, those seeds of this is what you, this is what you want to do.
Amber:Definitely.
Chris:So then you you graduate, and then that was kind of you wanted to do more of that. You wanted to be kind of the future Mrs. Blunt kind of kind of idea. Was that in the back of your mind too, of giving that experience to others? Because your first job where you were English, you English teacher.
Amber:I was. So yeah, actually, she was um a big influence among others, but I wrote one of my college essays about her. So she was definitely influential. And then yeah, after undergrad, I became a high school English teacher in San Antonio, Texas, and loved every minute of it. Working I this, I think that people say this about high school teachers a lot that the content draws us to the, to that career path. But then the kids, the students are what make us stay and what we grow to really love about it. And that was so true for me. Working with young people every day in my high school classroom was a joy. And watching them, maybe they would come in saying, I don't like to read or I don't like to write. But then for them to find some um something meaningful about a book that they connected with or they um could express their voice in their writing, there's there's really nothing quite like that.
Chris:How do you tap into that with kids that age?
Amber:The best way is to create a classroom community where students feel um safe and valued and they know their classmates. And so when they start sharing their writing or getting into writing groups to give feedback to one another, sharing what they think about a particular text, then um they feel like they can because it's it's a community who knows them and values them. That's kind of the heart of it is relationship and community.
Chris:How big were your classes?
Amber:Uh 30 plus. Okay. Yeah, 30 to 35 students per class usually.
Chris:So fair, fair size. So fair size community. But but I agree when I when I again think about that of being nervous to share things in class really revolved less around being nervous, I think, in front of the teacher, but nervous in front of your peers. Absolutely. To say something wrong. Or I remember even, you know, we would take turns reading in class in that anticipation of, oh, I'm gonna have to read out loud, and what if I screw up a word and and and not realizing really at that point or accepting like everybody screws up reading reading words. That's just that's just normal.
Amber:Yes, very true. It's um but then you get to know one another and you can joke and you can have fun and and learn at the same time.
Chris:And make mistakes. And make mistakes. That mistakes are are an important part of the learning process. That is something that I didn't learn till much, much later of that it's okay to make stakes, and that's mistakes. That's that's normal. It's actually productive. Yeah, really productive. Yeah. If you get if you get things right all the time, then then there's there's almost this weird expectation that you just keep getting things right, and we could go down that then that rabbit hole of growth mindset, fixed mindset, and that that taking those taking risks. Um so you loved being this teacher, right? This high school teacher. So what made you then go back to school, right? Why like most people would say, hey, I'm happy in my career, I'm just gonna keep doing doing this. So you then went back to do a lot more school. So what what was the impetus for that?
Amber:I did. So I I thought that I would be a 30-year career teacher. I thought I would stay in the high school classroom forever. And um then my husband got a job in Austin. So we were moving from San Antonio to Austin, so I had to quit my job. And it was an opportunity to think about what if. And I had all these questions when I was teaching um questions about how to make reading and writing more meaningful for young people, how to make school a place where students, students' interests are really valued and student, the way that students read and write and what they like to do outside of school could matter inside of school. And um, and how could we better support teachers in their learning and growth? And so I had a million questions. And since we were moving to Austin, it felt like, okay, what what if I did something different? What if I didn't find a teaching job in Austin? What if I applied and went to grad school to explore these questions and learn more? And so that's what I did and started a whole new journey that I never expected to go on, but but I did.
Chris:And and how was that? Because I remember I took I had a two-year gap between when I finished undergraduate and I decided to go to graduate school. And that was kind of intimidating at first to kind of go back to school. If I thought, oh man, two years, I've I've forgotten everything and I don't know how long your gap was. But I remember being surprised of how much I loved going back to school, that that time away from it and the pondering the questions really drove me to, oh, this, I I love this, right? Senior undergraduate me would have said, no, I'm done, I'm burnt out, I'm kind of tired, I want to not be a student. But when I came back to it, I was really, really excited. Was that similar for you?
Amber:Very much so. I was so energized to be with other educators and mentors, my professors, who were asking similar questions, asking really hard questions about how we do school and um how it could be different and better serve young people. And just being in those spaces where people were kind of asking similar questions and um and having these conversations. And I was reading pieces of theory that that would have seemed maybe really abstract for undergrad me. But I had these years of classroom teaching. And it was like these pieces of theory were naming things that I had experienced, but couldn't put names to, right? I couldn't, I I had experienced it, but I hadn't really been able to like examine what was going on, or I didn't have language to describe it. And so being able to read things was like, you're describing exactly my experience in my classroom. Um, and so that was really meaningful for me to step back from the classroom and kind of have this have this different perspective.
Chris:And and and I think what you're talking about is really important. And when I talk to a lot of scholars and and researchers, there's this common thread here of that theory is great, uh, but the practical lived experience and the application of that theory is really the driving force for a lot of people that I would say make meaningful change. You can right, you can do primary research that is for peer-reviewed literature and peers read it. But uh the things that you are describing, these are the things that actually make a difference in the classroom.
Amber:Right.
Chris:And not just for the students. And I think that this is important kind of in your in your story of right now, so much emphasis is how do we how do we better teach our students, right? Student learning outcomes, right? It's very student and learner focused, which I think is good. I'm not saying that that's bad, but there's a there's a missing piece to that. And that kind of came out in your graduate work. You you set out to to answer a particular question, but it was something that emerged kind of on the side. So tell us kind of about like what what was that question that you were chasing down? And then what was this other thing that kind of emerged in the the background that really now shapes what you what you currently do?
Amber:Yeah. So for my dissertation research, I was interested in writing assessment that would value students. Um, because in my own teaching practice, my writing instruction was very student-centered. Like I wanted students to choose their topics. I wanted them to make decisions as they were moving through the writing process. But then it came to assessment, and it was very teacher-centered. Like, I'm going to assess you based on this set of criteria. And I really hadn't, I stopped including the students. Their voice mattered all through the writing process, but then in the assessment, it was me. Right. And so I was, I wanted to explore types of writing assessment that would include students, even in the assessment piece of it. Um, and that would focus more on what students are doing well. I think everybody's probably had some kind of bad red pen experience, right? And you why is it always red? I know. And you know, you get it's all marked up, and you just think, oh, what am I a terrible writer? So I wanted to shift that practice too and and look more at, I mean, yes, of course, suggest areas for growth, but also value what students are doing well. So um I gathered a group of teachers, three English language arts teachers and myself, so four of us total, to um do some inquiry into writing assessment. We read some professional books, we read some scholarly articles, we looked at what teachers were already doing in their classrooms, um, we looked at some different assessment tools, and then we designed kind of synthesizing these different pieces, um, we designed an approach to writing assessment that would do these things, value what students were doing well, and include students in the assessment process, um, which was exciting and and um I learned so much from that. But then what I became most interested in was the inquiry and design and learning process that we went through together, this kind of collaborative teacher learning community. Um and yeah, I mean, the assessment piece was still interesting to me. And um, and I I still use a lot of what we came up with in that group, but but where my scholarship has really focused is on that that type of teacher learning.
Chris:So, so now kind of shifting the focus from how do students learn, how do teachers learn? Right. How do how do we as a community learn from each other? And because the the the benefit of that is not just, oh, we are able to teach our students better, but I would imagine you just feel better about your teaching. You've developed that community aspect that you're trying to create for your students. You've now created it amongst teachers, which if you're a teacher listening to us, I'm I'm sure that you'll appreciate that there's not a lot of time in the school day for those kinds of activities, right?
Amber:There's really not. And um, honestly, what teacher learning or professional development looks like a lot of times is a whole bunch of teachers sitting in an auditorium listening to some kind of presenter or speaker. And not that those things can't be valuable, they surely can. And there's a lot that we have to learn from um from experts, from scholars in the field. However, teachers also have so much expertise from their own their own classroom practice, from being in the classroom every day, doing the work, making tweaks, adapting, um, responding to who your students are and make, you know, those those everyday decisions that teachers make, the wisdom that comes from practice is so important and honestly sometimes gets ignored in professional development experiences.
Chris:It it those years of experience, right? They're not reflected in extra letters after your name, but they're invaluable to that. I think of my my own experience as a teacher and having to learn as I went, right? I had this idealized version, what I thought teaching would would be like after graduate school. And I've always wanted to be a teacher, but I keep uncovering all the things that I didn't know how to do because it was kind of, you know, go forth and teach, and you will pick again, experience has been the best teacher. Now I feel fortunate now at Boise State, the Center for Teaching and Learning, and having some of those faculty learning communities, those peer learning communities that you're talking about, the small groups rather than the large passive auditorium style learning. But, you know, you you mentioned the red pen. I was that teacher when I started. I was grading lab reports. So you've got a scientist grading writing, scientific writing, which is different than other writing courses, but I had absolutely zero skills in how to assess that. And so I was the demon with the red pen marking everything, every single punctuation issue or spell, right? It was this grammatical feast of I could mark the whole thing up. Even if it was a really good lab report, it would still end up with lots of pen. And I realized over time and the guidance of some wonderful writing teachers, thank you for all of those that have given me these tools of it's it's if you want it to be about the grammar, mark all the grammar wrong. But if you want it to be about other things, then you you need different assessment tools that are about here are like you said, here are the strengths, here's some room to grow, and not bog yourself down in marking everything right or wrong, which is why I ended up not liking grading lab reports because I was in the weeds all the time with the minutiae. And I think then the students they start to think that that's the important stuff.
Amber:That's right.
Chris:So I've learned have had to learn the painful way over time through experience of how to do this better. Not that I'm a lot better, but I'm certainly better than where I started from.
Amber:Well, and you touched on something important too that you learned from and with colleagues. And we can learn so much from one another. And um, especially when we're exploring our own questions. So that's what that kind of inquiry group allowed the four of us to do. It wasn't no one told us to inquire into writing assessment. We wanted to. We saw that as an area where we wanted to grow and try new things. And and so we came to the learning with that question. And that makes a big difference, right? And um teacher inquiry just allows teachers to do that, to tap into a question they have about their teaching, an area that they want to improve rather than being told, here's here's what to do.
Chris:Well, right. And because my guess, right, is the questions that you want to answer, those came from real lived experiences in your classroom, right? It wasn't a theoretical of like, oh, let's tackle this. It was like, hey, this is a challenge in the classes with the students that I've taught. Do you all have right? Sometimes there's that comfort in knowing that you're not the only one that struggles with the same thing. So, hey, we're all struggling with this. Chances are other people have the same question. Let's tackle this from a, you know, it's not just gonna help us, it's gonna help everybody else that that might read about it.
Amber:Right. And our students, because that's exactly where the question came from, is a real need in our classrooms. We saw that the ways we were assessing writing were actually harming our students as writers. What you just said, they would see all these red marks on the paper and think, oh, I'm I'm bad at this. I'm a bad writer. And that's not what we wanted to communicate. Or, or things like you're saying, we were paying more attention to the minutiae and not the content or the structure, right? And so then again, students come come away with messages that we did not want to send with our assessment practices. So um, it helped us to get better as teachers and and learn and grow, and it helped our students. It helped to support their growth as writers and and what they saw as possibilities for who they could be as writers.
Chris:So after finishing up graduate school, right now you've got this new question that came out of the old question. And that did that kind of just relight the fire, like a whole new fire of now, now I am armed with a degree that's gonna allow me to do so much more and explore this this question. So is that kind of what it felt like coming out of that? Of I'm starting over again, but it even a better, a better place.
Amber:It did. And it it felt like this is something that matters a lot. Teacher learning, um it matters for teachers because just like the the small group of four of us felt so energized after we we had built that learning community together. Um, and I've seen it in a I've seen it on the larger scale in in different kinds of professional learning. But um, so it matters for teachers and then it matters for students, just like I was talking about. When teachers are growing and they're exploring new ideas and they feel excited about how their teaching is changing, and um that the students can tell, right? The students in those kind of classrooms with those kind of teachers, they they are excited about learning. Um, and they they're learning from a teacher who is continually examining their practice and and getting better. And um, so it just it's such a benefit for our whole education system, right? For schools, when teachers are in these spaces where they feel supported, they feel like their expertise is valued, but they also feel challenged. They feel challenged to keep keep trying new things.
Chris:I I I I sometimes students ask me, so how long do you plan to teach? Right. And I go, I will stop teaching probably when I feel like I have figured it all out.
Amber:Okay.
Chris:Right. Because that's the only thing I've learned is that I every every semester is different. Every class is different. The students are evolving, right? Like what you what what I learned five years ago, some of it just doesn't apply anymore. Now we have lingering effects of the pandemic, of totally different modes of learning for students. And I've really resisted the, oh, well, they've got knowledge gaps of more of this is an opportunity to change my teaching to adapt to where our students are. Right. I I think some of the best, my some of my best mentors on this campus, right, will say we meet our students where they are at. And that means the target moves. I would imagine the things, right? The writing assessment tools that you came up with a while ago, those have had to adapt and evolve. You've got AI now.
Amber:That's right.
Chris:Changes changes the ball game. You cannot ignore those, those, those things. Um I don't envy you that challenge. Again, I I I opportunity, right? I've I've told my students in my class we do some short writing assignments. And I go, if you choose to use AI, I'm okay with that. But I want you to tell me how you how you used it. Why did you use it? What is what is the what is the tool? Um, because it's another tool, and you can use a tool correctly, right? Appropriate Well said not correctly, appropriately or inappropriately. It can help you. It can it can hinder you.
Amber:I tell my undergraduate students that who are becoming teachers that it's one of the hardest parts of the job, but one of the best parts of the job that you'll never feel like you have it figured out. You'll you'll just keep learning all the time. But that's one of the best things too. It's never boring. It's always challenging. There's always something new to learn.
Chris:So we could say there are always disruptions of some kind. And disruptions can be negative or they can be positive. And that takes me to something, a big project that you're working now.
Amber:Yes.
Chris:Your book. And what's the title of your book?
Amber:The title is Disruption Through Design.
Chris:So tell us about the book. Okay. So it's so tell us about the book. So again, that title makes me think, okay, we're not using disruptive disruption in negative context, right? We're doing it on purpose or with purpose. So tell us a little bit about that.
Amber:So the book, um, I am co-writing the book with my colleague, Michelle Fowler Amato, and she is um an associate professor at Old Dominion in in English teaching. Um and so we've both worked with teacher inquiry groups. And the book highlights four different inquiry groups and how these groups on purpose disrupt um through their process of inquiry and design. And disruption being something's not quite right, right? You you notice something in your own teaching, or you notice something in the school system, or there's a challenge like you're talking about with um effects of the pandemic or new technology like AI. So we notice there's something that's not working quite well. And so we want to disrupt that and try something new and design very intentionally, design something new that's going to better support student learning and our teaching. So each chapter of the book, high, like I said, highlights one inquiry group and how they went through these different parts of inquiring into a question that they had, drawing on their own expertise, drawing on professional resources, learning from one another, and then going through a process to then design something that they can take into their classrooms to respond to that question that they have.
Chris:And I think that's really interesting in terms of thinking about this disruption kind of then the inquiry, the disruption. Now we've ended up at a new place kind of process because the the what I hear from from a lot of people, right? Again, coming out of the pandemic, teachers everywhere had to drastically change what they're doing. It was incredibly disruptive. And I I don't there are very few people that would, you know, think of that as like, oh, that was a positive disruption, right?
Amber:Right.
Chris:I have tried to think about the ways I've changed my teaching now, the lingering effects in my teaching as positive, right? What what are the things that I kept that worked well, not just because it was the pandemic and we were all stressed out and burnt out, students and and teachers alike, but what were those things that were like, you know, this really still tracks, right? We're always because while we may not have global disruption, we are all gonna have disruptions and and tragedy and hardships in any semester. So if we build, right? So I was thinking of, well, the things, the structures I built in my class during this global issue, they're still gonna play just fine when that student has that traumatic event that happens during the course of the semester. So why why pull those things out? And I really resisted, and it and again, what I had started this train of thought with is that I kept hearing, I can't wait to get back to normal. And I understand that statement, right? We all, right, normal is comfortable, right? We know what normal feels like, what it looks like, we feel like we're experts in normal. And I still feel that people are some people are sitting around waiting for normal, right? For our students to go back to normal. And I've just embraced normal's gone, right? There is no normal, and that's okay, and that's a good thing that that this is opportunity.
Amber:Right.
Chris:So let's design how to adapt to that disruption. So so to me, you describing your books, like, oh, these are the things that I've been thinking about.
Amber:It's been interesting because it's not my prior work um before this was written for scholarly audiences to publish in peer-reviewed journals and that kind of thing. Um, I've written some articles for a teacher audience, but this book is very specifically for a teacher audience, for classroom practitioners. And that was important for me to take my scholarship, my research into classrooms, right? To do work there and to support teachers and um hopefully energize teachers at this particular moment when it's been hard. It's been hard due to the pandemic and all kinds of shifts. And um, and so I I hope that this book is coming out at a at a good time when when teachers maybe um want their professional learning to be revitalized and feel invigorating. Um, but but writing for a teacher audience is is really hard, right? Like um making it engaging and and meaningful. And I was talking with um a mentor and he's written some books for teachers as well. And he was thinking, yeah, it's a lot harder. Like the writing has to be even better than because you've got a bunch of writing teachers, right, right, right, writing instructors reading this thing. A bunch of English teachers reading this book. He's like, Yeah, the writing has to be even better than for your peer-reviewed articles. I'm like, that's so true. Um so yeah, it's it's been a it's a long process, but it's also really fun because I feel like I get to be kind of my I get to be my teacher self again, right? And I get to be a classroom teacher, kind of talking to other classroom teachers. And it's I've enjoyed the process of writing it.
Chris:So with all your director roles now, do you still get is your teaching, is your teaching load dwindled now because of these other things? Is that do you do you kind of protect the classes that you teach?
Amber:I still, I still teach. I don't very clear about this with my department that I don't want my director roles to ever take me out of the classroom. Um if I'm going to teach about teaching, I should be teaching. And I love it. I I love it too much to to not be in the classroom. Um, so I I do. I teach methods classes for our undergrad program. Um, and so I get to work with our students who are becoming teachers, which is so fun. And and watching them on that journey and kind of step into the role of teacher. And then by the time they're student teachers, we have a student teaching seminar that I'm teaching right now. And so they are in the classroom all day, and then we get together and debrief and talk about how it's going and um and to hear them talk as teachers. And so they sort of become by that point colleagues with me. Like we're all colleagues together. We're all asking questions about our teaching. We're um that's so fun to see them really take that on as classroom teacher.
Chris:Well, and in many ways, right, you're you're creating those communities of inquiry that your book is all about, right? You get to model that in your own classroom, probably with the hope that those students who then become the teachers will model that for others as well, right? It's that kind of pay it forward or the ripple effect. As teachers, we don't solve all the world's problems. We help, right? We we cast the little rocks into the pond and we watch those ripples spread out as our students go and then make those, make those, those impacts.
Amber:That's right. And there's so much agency too. You were talking about how how teachers respond to disruptions, like maybe the the less positive types of disruptions. Um and and in in inquiry and design, when teachers are are kind of leading their own professional learning in this way, there, there's agency that, yeah, these things might happen to us, right? These, these difficult things in the world or in our education system. But if we can pursue our own questions, if we together in collaboration with colleagues can design something to respond to those challenges and questions, then there's agency in that. Then we don't then we have some um something we can do, right? Some change we can make.
Chris:So all of this sounds could be used by teachers all all over the place. What about now closer to home? So one, right, you are in essence training future teachers that probably many of them will stay in Idaho. I would say, do you find that like a lot of your students, do they get placed or do they stay in Idaho or local or go back to their own communities to teach or most stay in Idaho.
Amber:I've even found that our students who come from out of state, a lot of them want to stay because they love it here. And so, yeah, most of our graduates stay in the Treasure Valley or surrounding areas.
Chris:And I think that's amazing because I think no matter what your individual views on education of the system may be, I think by and large, everyone agrees that you know teaching students well is important, no matter, right? I again you we can disagree on how that happens, but having teachers that support our kids, really important. And I and I think in recent years, and maybe it's gone on longer, longer than that, but I think there's this distorted perception. Being a public school teacher is this just horrendous thing and that nobody likes doing it. And while I would agree that they're all underpaid, sometimes people don't like underpaid is a relative term. Not everyone is underpaid as much as some people think. And it depends on the school district, it depends on a lot of things. But I think there's this negative lens of that, oh, well, no one wants to do this. And to me, there are lots of people that want to do it. And they will take that. Yeah, they know they're not getting paid as much as they might, as they might otherwise, but they're there to make a difference and they will take all of those challenges. So again, shout out to all the teachers or the future teachers, right? You if you're not a teacher, keep that in mind too. If it's not as gloomy and do like, yeah, there are challenges and and but there's this whole host of people that just do this job well and that are willing to take that disruption and turn it into opportunities for for our students. And I think that's an amazing thing. So the more we can do to support them, let's support them in in doing that, because they they know they know how to do they know how to do that work. So you're creating these new teachers that are going to, many of them are going to stay here, even when they could consider going elsewhere. And I think that's a really amazing uh thing. But some of the other local projects, so talk about, so like the writing project. So you're director of the writing project. I know that's both a national and kind of a local thing. So what what what is that all about?
Amber:Yeah. So the National Writing Project um started in the 70s and and very similar to the kind of teacher learning that I've been talking about. So um one person, a university faculty member, started getting teachers together to learn from one another. It's this teachers teaching teachers kind of mindset. And then other people around the country started saying, Hey, that what you're doing is looks really helpful. And um, we want to start that here. And so these sites started popping up around the country. Um, they're always attached to a university. So a university faculty member is um usually the director, and and then there are local teachers involved. So we have the Boise State Writing Project, which is a local site of the National Writing Project. Jeff Wilhelm started it um about 25 years ago. And it is, I was also involved in a writing project, the Heart of Texas Writing Project in Austin. And it is honestly the most meaningful and transformative type of professional learning I personally have ever experienced. And now being part of two sites, I can see this is true across. Um, and then as director, going to national conferences where you you meet lots of sites. It's it's just the culture across all of these sites in different cities that teachers are learning together. So there's that community aspect again. Um, their expertise is valued. They are asking questions that matter to them, right? So it's these same kinds of things happening in these learning spaces. And and like you said, teachers want to be there. They want to be in the classroom, they want to work with kids. Um and so I get to meet through my work with the Boise State Writing Project, I get to meet local teachers who are incredible. And I get to go into their classrooms and see how they're working with young people. And um, and it's really my specialty is English language arts, but but this Boise State Writing Project is K-12, all content areas. Um, and so it's it's a really energizing learning community. And it's been it's one of the best parts of my job for sure.
Chris:So is that throughout the school year? Is that a summer thing? Is it just local here? Is it across the state? Like how does how does that all work?
Amber:In the summer, we typically have what is called the Invitational Summer Institute, and that is kind of a writing project centerpiece, no matter what site you go to. And so it's four weeks. Um, it is five days a week, like eight to four every day for four weeks. And so you can imagine teachers who elect to spend their month of June every day doing this kind of deep, um, intense professional learning, they they care a lot about their profession and they care a lot about growing and and serving their students well. So um that is the the main piece of our of our whole um year. And then we also have some advanced institutes. So right now, for the past few years, we've had an advanced institute around indigenous voices. Um, one of our teacher leaders came to the directors and said, I'm really interested in teachers learning from members of Idaho tribes so that we can include indigenous literature in our curriculum so that we, when we teach in social studies about Idaho tribes, that it can be really accurate and that also we can not just represent tribes as in the past, but also here today and part of our community. And so the director said, sure, let's, and this is this is part of the great thing about the writing project too, teachers lead initiatives. When a teacher has an idea and they come to the directors and say, I want to do this thing, we say, yes, let's let's make this happen. Um, and so we have found funding for the Indigenous Voices Workshop. Um, this will be our third summer. And the guest speakers from the Idaho tribes um lead the sessions. And so um the teachers are learning directly from them and with them. And um, that's been really a powerful learning experience. Um, and then Jeff Wilhelm has been leading work around democracy building instruction. And so how how people can come together, how young people can learn to come together and talk across differences and be in dialogue, respectful dialogue on some hard issues and in preparation for participating in a democracy.
Chris:Well, and these are uh, you know, the the state board would call them right, these are durable skills, the skills that are transcend content, right? And the ability to have difficult conversations about I I think that skill's always been important, but I would argue now with the hyper awareness of things and the huge amount of information that we are flooded with. I think being able to sift through that and talk with peers and to be comfortable not agreeing on everything, I think is really really important. And right, teachers, they have the challenge of navigating that with young students, right, that are grappling with that too, because they're hearing messages from home, from their friends, from social media. And my guess is that they all want to talk about it, but they may not know how to talk about it without just getting in in a fight about it. And so that's really cool to hear that that's a an aspect of that as as well. Yeah. And so so that Summer Institute is that hosted at Boise State?
Amber:It is.
Chris:And then do people from all around the state, like do you get people from all regions of the state kind of come together during during that summer month?
Amber:We do. Um because of the location, we often have the majority of the teachers from the Treasure Valley, but um, we offer housing in the dorms for teachers who come from. So we've had teachers from Coeur d'alene, um, Twin Falls, the Idaho Falls, Pocatello area. So we we always have teachers from other parts of the state as well as teachers who are right around this area. And then um this summer, and we've done this in the past too, we do some um teaching, like one-day teaching conferences around the state. So in June, some Boise State Writing Project teachers will be presenting on literacy, um, K-12 literacy in reading, writing, and vocabulary, strategies that teachers can use in their classrooms. And so those are there's one here in Boise, there's one in Twin Falls, one in Idaho Falls, and one in Coeur d'alene. So we're we try to to get out into the the whole state and um and support learning all around the state.
Chris:Right. And and and when we we talk about, you know, Boise State, right? The blueprint for success and talking about supporting rural students. I think that also supporting rural teachers whose Yes. I and I grew up in rural Idaho, right? I I can't that was a relatively small teacher pool. And that community is small. And and my guess is that my teachers growing up would have loved to have that kind of support because they were just physically isolated. They're in a small school district. All the kids come into that one central place, but they're separated from their fellow teachers by by time and space. And so, so these kind of things that can spread out into those spaces, I think are really important for those teachers that are teaching those students that need that support.
Amber:That's right. And that's one of our goals in the writing project, um, because we've talked about how important the community, the professional community, and the collaboration is. And if you're the only English language arts teacher at your school, then then that's hard, right? That's hard to find um the collaboration. So yeah.
Chris:But because again, you no one starts teaching with all of the answers or all of the knowledge of how how to do it. And often you need sounding boards of like, hey, I'm gonna try this. What do you think about this? What are some pros or cons or some pitfalls? Have you have you tried this? So I'd imagine that that community building is even more impactful, impactful in rural areas, which and I would argue, right, rural communities, that sense of community in those places is really important. That's right. Yeah. Very tight-knit community. I grew up again in a small town. Everybody knew everybody else. Families going back generations at known known each other. And so that sense of community, I think, it is important and can be right. But for teachers that don't have that community, that could be really tough. So what other what other things have your scholarship done that that that have these kind of these local effects that you want to talk about?
Amber:I would say um the it's all around teacher learning. That's kind of the the central piece of it. Um and bringing teachers together in these different ways in the writing project. We are starting a new um, it's a grant funded project called Pathway to Academic Success. And that's through the writing project. Um, and so bringing teachers in to learn about this program, the pathway program, um, and it's really to support multilingual students. So strategies, reading and writing strategies to um to help multilingual students be successful. And so giving teachers those strategies to then pass on to the students. So that's one of the new projects that we're working on this summer and throughout the next year. Um, we're also working on um narrative writing and with particularly with seventh and eighth grade teachers and narrative writing as a way to increase student feelings of belonging in the classroom after during and after the pandemic. Um, we've, you know, we've been seeing students feel somewhat disconnected from school. Um, also, we're seeing mental health challenges among young people, particularly in our state. So the narrative writing can help students share their stories with one another and connect with one another so that they're not feeling isolated when they go to school. They can connect with their peers in the classroom and they can feel like other people know who they are through sharing their, you know, there's maybe they write a story about a meaningful time with their family and or what their family is like and or what um what was a an important thing that they have learned so far in their life. So kind of valuing who students are and what they bring to the classroom and then helping students connect with one another as a way to grow their writing skills, but also um increase their sense of belonging in in schools.
Chris:And so just to make sure I understand the terminology, so narrative writing, right? It's storytelling, but with a personal, right? You're looking more at personal narratives with this?
Amber:It could be a personal narrative, it could be a story about someone else, but but a story, basically. And um, you know, we put a lot of emphasis in schools on these kind of academic types of writing, like an argument or the five paragraphs. Yes, or inform, you know, explain or inform your reader about something, which are good. Those are important skills that students need for for college and career and all kinds of things. Um, but but also we as people, as human beings, um, learn a lot from one another when we share stories. And so kind of bringing that in um into classrooms.
Chris:And I think so. It's to me, it's it's similar to the surest way to ruin a book for me is to make me write a book report about it. Right. I remember in all throughout my school experience, if I had to read a book and I knew I had to write a report on it, I'd never, I never enjoyed it. I didn't read it the same way that I read books for like I'm just gonna read this book for for enjoyment or for my own personal um reasons. I think I view writing sometimes the same, the same way of right. It's like, oh, I'm writing this for a grade or to be evaluated, and now it's and now there's now there's pressure, there's stress on that. Do you find then that that narrative writing helps to kind of disconnect right now? You're not worried about, oh, I I I'm not so worried about this formal structure, right? There's still good writing things in that, right? There's things that you need to do and not do. But do you find that the narrative writing is easier than for the students to kind of be authentic in their writing and enjoy that process instead of worrying about the structure so much in other forms of writing?
Amber:I think I think so. And one is that they know the content. If it's about They're the expert. They're the content expert. If it's a if it's a narrative about themselves, then they they're very familiar with the content, which helps a lot. Um also if they're given choice, if they, you know, we like, we all like to choose things. And so um if students are choosing what they write about, choosing what story to tell, that that increases the motivation too. Um, but in all these programs, I'm talking about the way that teachers learn. So again, they're not just sitting down listening to someone say, Here's how you're going to teach narrative writing, right? Um it's it's inquiry based. It's in this small group who meets together and looks at the materials and says, All right, how are we, why, why are we using this? For what purpose? How will this support students? Um, and then how? How are we going to implement this and thinking through those pieces together? So, so no matter what the what the kind of learning is, whether it's indigenous voices or narrative writing or democracy building instruction, it's teachers coming together to figure out why they're doing this work and also how, how to put it into their classrooms in their particular context with their students in ways that make sense and will will most benefit their students. So it's always about the the teachers being in these collaborative groups to figure out together how to how to make it work.
Chris:Well, as a fellow teacher, I sincerely appreciate your efforts because uh I would not be where I'm at with my teaching if it wasn't for hours and hours and hours of work with my colleagues. Again, who will be happy to tell me that they're just as clueless as I am on some things and that we're all we're all trying new things. We're all disrupting, disrupting our own classrooms. With the goal is to make things better for our students. And as again, as a kind of a side benefit of that, is we're also improving our our quality of life of I'm happiest when I'm surrounded by teachers that that support me in my own work. So I'm really excited to read your book. But I want to end with something that came out of when we were talking before this interview of the word joy. And and in talking with you about your scholarship, there's this again, this I I can't even say undercurrent because it is not kind of in the background of there's joy in what you do. So so parting messages on joy and research and scholarship, enjoying what you do. What what are your thoughts there?
Amber:It really is joyful work for me to watch new teachers come into the profession so excited. They love working with their students, to watch veteran teachers renew their excitement again and again. Um and just to watch what happens in those classrooms when when when young people are excited about the book they're reading or they're writing something. That means a lot to them. Um, and just watching how teachers very masterfully create those spaces where young people can thrive is the most joyful work.
Chris:Well, thank you so much for your time, Amber. I really appreciate it. And again, shout out to everybody that is a teacher that is listening to that. Or if you know a teacher and you're listening to this, go thank a teacher for all the really hard work that they do all the time and the amazing impacts that they make. So thank you again, Amber.
Amber:Thanks.
Chris:If you'd like to learn more about any of the topics discussed on today's show, please visit boisestate.edu.resear. I want to give a special thanks to Albertsons Library on the campus of Boise State for the recording space. The theme music for this show was composed and engineered by Boise State graduates Alan Skrivin and Taylor Ross. Thanks again for listening.